38. The question is whether the sentences of 4½ years for Sheppard and 2 years for Whittle were either wrong in principle or manifestly excessive. There is no error in principle; what we need to look at is the totality of the criminal conduct of each appellant. There is no appeal against the consecutive sentences of 4 months in each case for the offences under the Bail Act. Sheppard had to be sentenced for a total of 16 offences, 3 of which were for possession, 1 for distributing and the remainder for publishing, racially offensive material. Whittle had to be sentenced for 5 offences, all for publishing racially offensive material. The judge structured his sentence in the case of Sheppard in this way. For counts 1 and 3 which took place between March 2005 and April 2006 12 months imprisonment concurrent; for counts 4 to 10 and 12 to 15 which all involved setting up, running and editing the website heretical.com 2½ years imprisonment concurrent with each other but consecutive to the 12 months; and for counts 16 to 18, which were committed on bail in the summer of 2007, 12 months concurrent with each other but consecutive to the other groups of sentences. Whittle received concurrent sentences for each of the 5 offences involving publication on heretical.com of articles of which he was the author. 39. The maximum penalty for each of these offences was 7 years imprisonment. Sheppard has a previous conviction for 2 similar offences in 2000 under sections 19 and 23 of the 1986 Act for which he received a sentence of 9 months imprisonment. The judge in passing sentence said he had rarely seen or read and had to consider material that was so abusive and insulting in its content toward racial groups within society in this country. We agree with that assessment; this was truly pernicious material. The judge rightly drew attention to its potential for social harm. He observed that by using a server in the United States the appellants thought they had found a way to circumvent English law. We regard the need to deter others as an important element of sentencing in cases of this kind. 40. Mr Davies submits that Sheppard’s sentence is manifestly excessive when measured against the sentences passed on El Faisal [2004] EWCA Crim 343 (12 months ) and more particularly Abu Hamza [2006] EWCA Crim 2918 (21 months). It is trite to say no two cases are the same. 41. The judge having presided over the two trials was well placed to assess the criminality of each appellant. That said, however, the point that has most impressed us is that there is no evidence of how many people saw the material or of the consequences of their having seen it, although we do know that there was several thousand “hits” or visits to heretical.com per day. There was no evidence of any individual having been corrupted, albeit we appreciate such evidence would unlikely to be forthcoming. Clearly a substantial sentence was called for in the case of Sheppard because he was a repeat offender and the offences spanned a not inconsiderable period as well as being repeated whilst on bail. In our judgment each of the constituent elements of Sheppard’s sentence was amply justified but we think 4½ years in total was too long. We think the right sentence would have been 3½ years and accordingly we grant leave to appeal against sentence and we achieve that result by reducing the sentences on counts 4 to 10 and 12 to 15 from 2½ years to 18 months. All the other sentences will remain as before. As to Whittle, his involvement was less than that of Sheppard and over a shorter period. He had no previous convictions. On the other had he was the “brains” behind the construction of the offensive material which he fed to Sheppard. We grant leave in his case too and the concurrent sentences of 2 years will